A while ago, I interviewed Dr. Thomas Breuneval at PBM 2024. Dr Breuneval is extremely interesting because he's experienced in setting up a red light therapy business.
Here's a picture of the interview we had together:
Dr. Breuneval has a very unique background in medicine - he'll explain more about that later. The interview with Dr Breuneval showcases a great case for implementing red light therapy into medicine and, from a business perspective, for clinics. Dr. Breuneval's perspective is wonderful because he's both a medical doctor as well as an entrepreneur.
Below, you'll find the full interview:
Dr. Breuneval: "Because the clients are coming to the clinic and they are very happy, you know. The therapy has often changed their life. In the beginning, they couldn't imagine those results because it looks miraculous. The clients think, "Okay let's try". And then they try and are convinced!"
From Medicine To Setting Up A Red Light Therapy Business: Dr Breuneval's Background
Bart: Today, I'm interviewing Dr. Thomas Breuneval because he has made a kind of radical life change, but we'll come to that in a second.
Can you first tell me a little bit about your background, Thomas?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: So, thank you for the invitation, Bart - thank you very much, I'm happy to be here. So I have been a Swiss radiation oncologist for about 15 years in the French parts of Switzerland. And I was the head of the department close to Lausanne, which is quite famous in Switzerland. I was doing radiation oncology there and discovered photobiomodulation (PBM) in 2020.
At the beginning, I bought the first device that was to support my patients in their fights against cancer. Because, as you know, there are a lot of side effects with radiation therapy, as well as with chemotherapy. There can be burns on the skin, for instance, there are burns on the mucosa [of the mouth] also, and there potentially is mucositis in the mouth if you treat a head and neck patient.
And you have potential hair loss with some chemotherapy, and neuropathy - peripheral neuropathy - also with chemotherapy. And the aim was to prevent these side effects with photobiomodulation. I was astonished by the results I had in a preventive and also curative setting.
And I decided to change, actually to stop doing radiation therapy, for a moment, and to put all my energy into opening the very first Swiss photo modulation Center.
That center I called the PBM Center in Montreux. So now the center has existed for 3 months. I'm very happy!
See Dr. Breuneval's PBM Center below:
Bart: Congratulations, that sounds really good. Can you tell me more about what you offer latestin that PBM center of yours?
Thomas: So I decided actually to equip myself with the very latest devices - with the Thor devices, for example. I have the chance to get the whole body chamber (or bed) - the NovoTHOR. And then I also brought small devices from Thor. And a Swiss machine that's quite famous in Europe - called ATP 38 - which is a three-panel device:
And I also started to treat transvaginal photobiomodulation with three probes for female health issues [- with the FeminaLum listed above]. For example, after giving birth or if there can be scar tissue in that region. And also for the postmenopausal women who suffer in that region because of the loss of hormones.
Female Medical Photobiomodulation Devices
Bart: Yeah, what can you tell me about the female health technology? Can you tell me about the female patients who come to you for help?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: I have the chance to collaborate with a very famous gynecologist in Montreux, Switzerland, who refers patients to me who have had surgery for endometriosis. So the patients have scar tissue and need help to speed up scar healing.
And doing the photobiomodulation, there is always red and the infrared light. So there is one red probe and one infrared probe, and the third is a blue probe for the anti-infectious effect.
And I'm treating 3 minutes per probe, so it's 9 minutes total. That treatment is minimally invasive, of course, but also has no side effects. And the results are amazing, as in eight to nine treatments, two to three times a week, you can divide the time for the scar to get corrected by five.
Bart: So scar tissue heals five times faster.
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: Exactly.
Photobiomodulation For Female Fertility
Bart: Are there any other results that are like outstanding for you?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: I also think that when women pass the menopausal chapter of life, their sexual life can be really bad. And it's a taboo subject because we don't know how to treat these patients very well.
The genealogists can give some topics, some cream, but I think photobiomodulation can change their liveslives. Because we can regenerate the mucosa after some, there is nine studies about that after eight applications twice a week, then you get the mucosa regenerated.
Those results have changed women's lives. And then you do maintenance treatments because, of course, if you stop that treatment, because there are no hormones, as there is a loss of hormones in the blood, there is a return to normal. [So the improvements will be lost without maintenance].
So you need to do a maintenance treatment so each six to eight weeks I propose to make another treatment. In order to conserve, to maintain what they have.
Bart: Yeah, so it's just like exercise, right? If you exercise three times per week for some time but then completely stop, the results will go away.
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: That's it.
Below, you can see some of the female health and fertility interventions at the PBM Center Switzerland:
Other Thor Medicine Treatments
Bart: And then when we go back to the NovoThor and do the Thor lasers, what what kind of people come to your clinic for those devices?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: That's an excellent question! So mainly I'm treating oncological (cancer) patients who suffer from side effects of the oncologic treatments. So one example is dermatitis on the breast - if you have burns on the breasts, or issues with the skin, or oral mucositis.
I'm also treating athletes. I have the chance to treat very famous athletes who are coming to get more performance, to get more flexibility, and to recover faster. The athletes come to me often before a competition, for example, and just after the competition to recover faster.
And I'm also treating autoimmune diseases. For example, polyarthritis. And I'm treating people suffering from poor bones or their joints with very good results.
I always propose starting with a NovoTHOR for 20 minutes for the whole body. And then I'm doing some boost on the region that needs a higher dose.
And also, the dermatologic cases have excellent results. I think the skin is an easy target to reach. So there are good results if you have some acne, such as young people. And I treat some eczema, and any other type of dermatologic issues can be treated very effectively with photobiomodulation.
The NovoTHOR makes universal sense for each situation. You start with the 20 minutes, and then maybe you use other devices to be more selective.
Red Light Therapy And Cancer Treatment Combination
Bart: Knowing your extensive background in this field, can you explain more about the use of red light therapy in the case of cancer? In what cases is cancer a contraindication, and in what cases (such as head and neck cancer) do you use treatment?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: Photobiomodulation (PBM) is now considered an essential therapeutic tool in oncology. It should be provided in parallel with anti-cancer treatments such as radiotherapy, chemotherapy, or surgery, in order to limit the side effects, support the immune system, and preserve quality of life.
For example, in head and neck cancers, PBM helps patients maintain oral feeding, avoid hospitalizations, and recover faster and with fewer long-term sequelae.
PBM is not contraindicated in cancer patients. On the contrary, it is widely recommended by institutions like MASCC to prevent and treat oral mucositis.
Different Light Therapy Protocols For Different Cancer Types
Bart: Do you use different treatment protocols for different cancer types? And are there any cancer types that you won’t treat with PBM, or the cancer’s side effects? For instance, I’m curious about the difference between treating prostate or breast cancer, or the cancer treatment side effects, with PBM.
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: Yes, protocols are always adapted to the patient’s condition and symptoms. We treat various side effects of cancer therapies, especially cutaneous toxicity (e.g. breast cancer) and mucosal toxicity (e.g. ENT, anal or gynecological cancers). We also propose full-body PBM sessions to boost energy, limit inflammation and support healing.
Getting Clients For A Red Light Therapy Business
Bart: So Thomas, if I understand it correctly, you get part of the patients through a doctor through a referral, and some of the clients or just come to your clinic because they might want help with the sports performance, or with the skin, or for another reason.
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: That's exactly right, Bart, so I have my colleagues, the doctors I knew before as a radiation oncologist we who refer patients to me with the side effects. I'm trying to collaborate as much as possible with gynecologists and dermatologists.
I also have a focus on communication. Because red light therapy is not something that is very famous until now. So we need to communicate - I'm trying to do my best with social media. I have associates who are working in that social media field. So my associate is helping me make the best possible of the marketing.
Because the clients are coming to the clinic and they are very happy, you know. The therapy has often changed their life. In the beginning, they couldn't imagine those results because it looks miraculous. The clients think, "Okay, let's try". And then they try and are convinced!
And then they refer their family. So first I had many women, I had 85% of women, and then I got their husbands as clients, their kids, and their neighbor, and the uncle of the family coming to the clinic.
Word of mouth is really good marketing. And when you are convinced by the photobiomodulation results, then you can you can be a very good ambassador. I'm very happy about that.
Bart: Yes, people like me who are very tuned in to the science, as we read papers all day, and then write about the topic. But then we forget about the success stories. And of course it won't work for everybody, and it's not a magic pill, but it can move the needle in a very significant way, right?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: Exactly.
Here you can see some of the different areas the PBM Center has experience in:
Photobiomodulation Center Success Stories
Bart: Could you tell me a bit more about the success stories that you have in your clinic?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: I have one patient who had a fistula between the rectum and the vagina because of a surgery because of endometrial nodules in that region.
The quality of life was poor and she's only 34. We had nine applications three times a week with the transvaginal photobiomodulation. And we succeed to close the fistula, which is something very new because she would otherwise have needed a graft in that region to close that.
[Comment Bart: a fistula is an opening that forms between the vagina and another organ that shouldn't be there.]
I also have good results with fibromyalgia. I'm collaborating with the Swiss Association of Fibromyalgia and they refer to me patients who are suffering from this disease. Here, I have maybe up to 90% of pain relief and it's really game-changing for these patients.
For dematology I have good results also for acne. Because acne is something that can leave some scars on the facem and the aesthetics of the face can be really be destroyed. And we have very good results with the red, infrared, and blue for the anti-infectious effects.
Dr Breuneval: "I had this nice position as the head of a [medical] department, and I had a stable life. And I decided to change everything because I'm passionate about photomodulation. I decided to go out of my comfort zone and try to create a new brand."
How To Start A Red Light Therapy Business
Bart: So next up, I want to go back to your story because I've heard that you made a dramatic life change.
One day, you were working in a regular medical system. And now, basically, you've got your clinic focused mainly on PBM. Can you tell me more about that change?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: Actually I was using ionizing radiation to destroy cancer but now I'm still using radiation, but to cure - to regenerate. So I'm still thinking the same way. I mean some dosimetry [i.e. dosing] is involved with my old and new interventions. It's a topic which I'm very interested in - that we've heard a lot about during this event the PBM 2024. It's a nice topic, as I want to know what doses are needed for which health issue.
So that's the main change in my life. I had this nice position as the head of a [medical] department and a stable life. And I decided to change everything because I'm passionate about photomodulation. I decided to go out of my comfort zone and to create a new brand.
But, the health insurance was not reimbursing for my treatment until now. So the patients are paying for the treatments themselves. That process will change because I have some negotiations with the health insurance to get reimbursements in the future.
As a result, I think people will take less medicine and go to the doctor and the physiotherapist less often. So then they're consuming less healthcare. By changing this, I think it makes sense to get reimbursed to help lower healthcare costs when you give these treatments.
Bart: But for you, it was initially a big risk, right? You wouldn't know for sure fwhether it would work out? But because you believed in PBM, you decided to take the leap of faith. And it has worked out, so that's really good.
Are there any other things you want to mention here?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: I have patients coming from far, and they're sometimes taking one and a half to two hours by car to come. And we're dedicating one hour each for a patient. So they are making this huge journey to come to the clinic.
Also, I will open another PBM Center in Geneva in the future. That's my aim in 2025 - we will have another center in Geneva. And if everything goes well, then I hope also to open other centers in Switzerland to use this wonderful therapy with as many people as possible.
More Tips For Starting A PBM Clinic
Bart: What recommendations would you have for an entrepreneur to start with PBM in their clinics? What are some dangers, and what are some benefits, and lessons that can be learned from your entrepreneurship in Switzerland?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: Understand this: photobiomodulation (PBM) is not a wellness trend. It is a science-based medical therapy with growing demand. Patients are actively looking for drug-free, non-invasive, side-effect-free options, and PBM meets those needs perfectly.
The main barrier remains reimbursement. In Switzerland, we succeeded in having PBM covered by complementary insurance. This was a major breakthrough.
I recommend to invest in strong communication (traditional media + social media) and in educating both patients and health professionals.
Other Tips For Starting A Red Light Therapy Business
Bart: Are there any other tips for people starting a PBM-based business? Such as things non-PBM related - any marketing tips you have that people should know about, or how to do research on the potential customer base, or anything else?
What is your perspective here?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: Offer a complete and credible medical-grade setup. At PBM Center, we use:
- NovoTHOR full-body bed
- THOR LX2.3 with all probes
- ATP38 LED panels (Swiss Bio Inov)
- FeminaLum endovaginal probes (red, infrared, blue)
- SunPowerLED neuro helmet
We are now franchising the PBM Center concept, providing full support, exclusive equipment, operational systems, and branding. The market is booming, and this model creates real differentiation.
Red Light Therapy In A Clinic Vs. At Home
Bart: Do you have an opinion on consumer-based PBM products (more or less the “red light therapy”), and do you ever recommend people in your clinic use these devices at home?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: Not at this stage.
Most of them are uncertified, unreliable, and inconsistent in their light output. They may even be unsafe. Without CE or FDA clearance and verified parameters (fluence, wavelength, irradiance), these products shouldn’t be used therapeutically.
The Future Of Photobiomodulation
Bart: What do you think about future developments of PBM for clinics, such as your own? For instance, can you imagine different beds than the NovoTHOR, or different wavelengths that are used, or different treatment protocols? And would you use brain-related PBM devices in the future, like Vielight or SunPowerLED?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: The future is extremely promising. I expect:
- New full-body devices, but for now NovoTHOR remains the gold standard thanks to its reliable and verifiable light delivery.
- More neurological applications (Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, etc.) with helmets like Vielight or SunPowerLED.
- More clinical indications: skin, joints, gynecology, mental health...
- More professional recognition leading to increased insurance coverage and global adoption.
Bart here. If you wish to learn more about the NovoTHOR and the SunPowerLED or Vielight products, check the YouTube videos below:
Then, the NovoTHOR:
And the Vielight, finally:
Lastly: Where To Find PBM Center Switzerland Online
Bart: And, lastly, where can people find you online? What's your website and social media?
Dr. Thomas Breuneval: My website is pbm-center.ch and you can also find me on Instagram and Facebook right now. And in the future, hopefully at other places, I hope.
Bart: Thank you so much for the wonderful interview and the PBM 2024 congress. I hope we've informed you well about setting up a red light therapy business!!
This is a post by Bart Wolbers of Light Therapy Insiders. Bart finished degrees in Physical Therapy (B), Philosophy (BA and MA), Philosophy of Science and Technology (MS - with distinction), and Clinical Health Science (MS), has had training in functional medicine, and is currently chief science writer.
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